[x]
All Deviations
[x]

Things that really bug me about Apophysis

Journal Entry: Mon Sep 17, 2007, 9:51 AM
  • Mood: Love
Let's clear this up right now. It's not the art. I like flames.

The user interface is great, except the gradient (non)-editor sucks, but that's not what is bothering me.

It is that Apophysis has no owner and that the community has no center. There are hundreds of people creating different versions of the software and hundreds more creating scripts, and there is no central place to find them.

I have been messing with some SQL database applications on my web site. I have created a forum, blog and gallery with them. The SQL applications are all free. Each one of them has a web site that is controlled by a central team of volunteers. The web sites have documentation, helpful forums and databases where you can download various plugins and themes. These databases allow the community to upload to them so that they are available everyone.

I am a lurker on the Apophysis mailing list. I have been watching all of the new script announcements roll past. It's great that there are so many people who are willing to share their talents, but what a waste it is that these scripts will roll into oblivion after a few days.

Ultrafractal has a strong center. Every formula that it uses was created by volunteers. There are hundreds of formulas that are stored in a single place that is easily accessible. UF is released and stable, and it doesn't expire.

These free database applications that I have been using are proof that these sorts of communities can have a center.

Apophysis needs an owner or a team of owners. The beta testing can and should continue, but Apophysis needs a stable release that does not expire. The owners would make the call on what the stable release is. The owners would also provide a web site with documentation, a forum and database for scripts and beta versions, or at least links to the beta versions. The web site would be created and maintained by volunteers.

It can be done. Somebody just needs to step up and do it. Some of the sites that I have referred to have a place to donate money, probably to cover the cost of the server. I just paid my annual bill of about $100 for my site. It's not that expensive.

Why not me? I like apo but I am not in love with it. I am not willing to make the commitment. I suppose that lack of commitment is the problem. Until someone is willing to take ownership, the scripts and new versions will continue to fade in and out.

Devious Comments

love 0 0 joy 0 0 wow 0 0 mad 0 0 sad 0 0 fear 0 0 neutral 0 0

*Rozrr:iconRozrr: Sep 17, 2007, 11:24:02 AM
Well spoken Keith. I too would like to see this happen. I get sick and fed up of working out methods as to how to use different variations, and then I find they are either not included in a new version because the version was not the official version... Then old variations don't work as new ones are developed and we have to use several versions of Apo to enable us to continue what we want to do. Now we have Plugins... Need I say more.

--
Sometimes the blind can see more than the physically sighted and the deaf hear visions that we will never know.

Rozrr

*Tubaholics-Anonymous
=banana-tree:iconbanana-tree: Sep 17, 2007, 12:07:18 PM
Well, to be honest, I don't quite agree with most things you've said. First of all, I'm not subscribed to the mailing list but I've never missed any scripts or new variations yet, and I've tried out most of them. There actually is a central place where all those stuff are collected and shared; the Apophysis group on DA. The whole point of Apophysis is that it's free and open source. It's not fair to expect someone to be willing to pay money for something they won't be able to get money out of. The users make a comprimise by downloading the program for free, and I don't see why anyone should care whether each user has every possible accesory or not, let alone actually spending money to make sure that everyone does have all the new scripts and variations. The Apophysis group on DA isn't exactly an "official website" of the program, but the admins there work hard enough and they do maintain quite an up-to-date resource list, available for everyone.
As for expiring versions, I agree that it's quite disturbing, but all the new versions have been better than the previous ones and they remained stable from at most a week after their releases, so and they're easy to adapt, so I don't see it as too major a problem.

--
I'm going ~Slightly-Mad ...
~segami:iconsegami: Sep 17, 2007, 1:51:10 PM
It looks like you are assuming that all of the thousands of Apophysis users are members of the Apophysis group. I am not sure that this is a good assumption. I know a lot of fractal artists that don't like DeviantArt at all.

I just visited the group and I couldn't find the place where is says that the scripts are stored. Where do I look for that? Is the group handling plugins too? If it does, cool. Honest, I am not trying to argue. If I missed the place in the group that provides that stuff I would like to know where it is.

There are a lot of great places that support Apophysis, like the mailing list, FracFan forum and the apo group, but that's also the problem. There is a lot of enthusiasm but it is being wasted in a fog of disconnected lists and journal entries.

Last Friday I installed an application that I had never used before. I went to the web site and pulled up the documentation. When that didn't answer my questions I did a search in the forums. Within a couple of hours of downloading the software, I was editing code and adding plugins because the information was readily available in one place. This application is free just like apo. The biggest difference is that the community is organized and working together.

The groups and lists serve a good purpose, but it would so much more efficient if there was one official place to go for help and downloads.

There are people who do provide server space for the sake of fractals. The fractalus server hosts a number of mailing lists and web sites that are fractal related. Damien pays for that server out of his own pocket.
`MichaelFaber:iconMichaelFaber: Sep 17, 2007, 2:27:48 PM
The fact that Apophysis is poorly supported, and help is in different places on the Internet actually shows that open source isn't working. Open source isn't just about free software, but the best experience for every one.

I'm sorry. We have failed.

--
*Apophysis is back
`MichaelFaber:iconMichaelFaber: Sep 17, 2007, 2:38:19 PM
Your reasoning sounds great and all, but i disagree here: What flame fractals need is a program with an owner or team of owners. I don't agree that Apophysis has a place in the future of flame fractal art. With everything that needs to be changed, removed, rewritten and added, I don't think the program could rightly be called Apophysis when/if it comes to be.

--
*Apophysis is back
~segami:iconsegami: Sep 17, 2007, 3:54:55 PM
I wouldn't say that you have failed at all. I think that apo is a great success under the circumstances, but it could be even more successful if we could get the enthusiasm more centralized.

Look at this site for an example: [link] Open source is most certainly working in this case. It's working with apo too, but it could be so much better with a site like that.
~segami:iconsegami: Sep 17, 2007, 4:00:18 PM
Here's another one, but these people don't claim to be open source: [link]
They're just like open source though
~segami:iconsegami: Sep 17, 2007, 4:06:39 PM
One more: [link]

Imagine if the apo community was that centralized. If the software does need to be restructured, we could draw from all kinds of talent to do it.
~segami:iconsegami: Sep 17, 2007, 4:09:09 PM
Maybe, but whatever it becomes could still come through open source if the community was more structured and centralized
=ArtistInWaiting:iconArtistInWaiting: Sep 17, 2007, 5:49:12 PM
I agree with you about offering a stable version with updates. I use UF and update frequently.

Mark should never have given up control of his program.

--
AIW :rose: :teddy:

Admin at *Ultra-Fractal (2008)

Member of The PIF [link]